Dating After 70: Independence, Dating Apps & Raising the Bar

In this episode, Barb welcomes back therapist and returning guest Jackie Adams for an honest and deeply relatable conversation about dating later in life.

Both single women in their seventies, Barb and Jackie share personal stories of navigating dating after divorce and widowhood—exploring everything from dating apps and scammers to emotional availability, trust, and the changing expectations of relationships in later life.

They reflect on how dating in your 60s and 70s is very different from dating in your twenties. Many boomers today are simply seeking companionship, mutual respect, and meaningful conversation.

Find us on Instagram @convoswithboomerspod .

If you like our show, make sure you follow us on your favourite Podcast player. Feel free to rate and review our show and tell us what you'd like to hear, and what other topics you'd like Barb to explore!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:16

You are listening to What's Next Conversations with Boomers? And I'm Barb Demaray, your host. Okay, Mella. We just had a conversation, um, Jackie Adams and I, around many aspects of dating at this at this time. Was there anything in the conversation that you could relate to as a millennial? Oh my gosh, all of it?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

All of it.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Yeah.

unknown 0:44

All of it.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

Literally all of it. Also, just like, you know, you guys highlighting the fact that you're both single women in your 70s, and there's a lot of us in my age group that are not yet married and don't have children and are just choosing to be free and independent.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I find it fascinating, honestly, because you're absolutely right. I, you know, I think of my own daughter. She'll be 39 in June, single. Um, and she knows other single women her age. And I I just keep hearing this over and over again that women are happy on their own. If they're financially independent, you know, they've got a they've got an interesting life. And and I don't want to say that there are no decent men or women, whoever it is that you're dating. There are. There are many good people, there are many really healthy, thriving relationships for sure. You can't see, but I'm making a face. Well, I know personally, you know, a number, because obviously at my age, virtually everybody is married. And there's a lot of those relationships that are that are really healthy and thriving, and and others that I'm I love that for that. Yeah, if they love it, I love it for that. But I but I hear what you're saying, and and it's absolutely true. And I really wanted to emphasize with Jackie in our conversation that I had to finally, at my age, come to the realization that I deserve better. You know, when I when I think about what, you know, some of these men that I've been with and how they addressed me. And and I, you know, when it first happened, I'd think, well, nobody's perfect, and it's probably just a one-off thing, and then it would happen again and again. And and I Right, gobsmacked. I just like, yeah, and it is traumatizing. It it's just like why would I sign up for this?

SPEAKER_00 3:00

No, thank you. Right, why would I like volunteer my time? Volunteer my time to spend with this person that clearly doesn't even want to understand me.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Or value me enough to treat me respectfully and address me properly.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah, like it was not like we're asking for the moon, like honestly. Right. It's so funny because I was on t like like I always am, I was on TikTok, and this guy comes on and he's like, guys, women don't want to date us anymore. It was just so apropos because I feel like there is this collective awakening to the end of patriarchy. Do you know what I mean? I feel like this has been a long time coming, and I feel like, especially people my age and some that are younger that are just not even interested because it's too much work and too much effort only to be constantly traumatized over and over and over and over again that we're just opting out altogether, you know.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Being traumatized over and over and over again. Yeah, well, I that's that's certainly my reason. I just found that, and I, you know, through the whole dating app thing, I've dated tons. You know, sometimes it's you've spent some of them I've spent an hour with, some of them I've had a few dates with. So many, in my experience, don't know what a conversation is. Honestly. I mean, they they spend the entire time talking about themselves and and you know, like to share what they know and give you all sorts of facts and figures about things. And absolutely, there's just no interest in you or what you think about anything or what you do or anything. And so I had to start putting in my profile that I really like reciprocal.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

You gotta like break it down. Oh god, I'd like a back and forth, yeah, you know, like reciprocity is so like ground level dating 101. Like it's like it blows my mind that so many people can't bring themselves to do that.

SPEAKER_01 5:29

Yeah, yeah. Anyway, on that note, please enjoy my conversation with my friend Jackie Adams. So we have done many episodes around dating, and they seem to be the most popular. They're the ones that get the most downloads. Today is going to be another episode on dating, and we have our friend Jackie Addens back, who's a friend, also a mental health therapist. So she's got she's got some in-depth knowledge around a lot of these things. So, like Jackie, uh, well, Jackie and I, we are both single women in our 70s. I will say, is that all right to say that, Jackie? It's all right, but I am just 70, so I'm not in. You are just 70. Okay, I am over 70. I'm almost I'm gonna be 73 this year. Anyway, we have been on our own for a number of years and we've both done some dating. So we thought we'd just have a little conversation about our experience. Are we dating now? Do we want to go back dating? Why or why not? Um, yeah, because we've got we've got stories. Jackie, welcome back. Thank you so much, Barb. It's always fun to be with you. It is so fun to be with you, and we just love that you know you've you've become a regular and and you know, our episodes are are always great with you. So let's start off with you kind of telling you have told your story of divorce before, and if you want to recap it slightly, but also did you when did you start dating after the divorce? So just tell what you want to share.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Yeah, so I've been divorced now uh 15 years, actually. And I started dating. It was funny, actually, when I think about it. When I was separated, I was invited to a Christmas party in our neighborhood, and immediately there was a single man there, and they were all about me talking to him. It was such a setup, it was hilarious. But I wasn't even divorced yet. And he was lovely, and we went on a couple dates. He didn't live that close to me. He lived in northern Florida and I was in South Florida. You know, we talked on the phone. It was kind of nice just to know there was somebody around, and here I was getting divorced. I wasn't thrilled about my divorce. So it was just kind of a little bit of a support. It was very nice. But as far as real dating, I'll call it, it didn't begin until I moved. And I moved out of Florida within a year of my divorce and came back home to New Jersey, which people know part of that story. And when I first got here, I met so many lovely people who just introduced me to other people, all friends, you know, where to go, what to do in this area. Because although I was from New Jersey, I moved to a part of Jersey I'd never lived in before. So I didn't know it very well. Anyway, on the coast, near the water, all wonderful. And one day I realized that I had a friend from high school who had I'd always been in touch with, but I didn't realize how close she lived to me in proximity once I moved here. So she was about 30 minutes away. She calls me up one day, she said, What are you doing? Come over for coffee. I'm not sure you know how close we live. And then off I went to her house. And when I was sitting there, this is probably one of the funniest stories. Her cousin walks in and she says, Oh, do you remember him? And I said, Kind of. We had been partners in her wedding. And at this point, she'd now been married 33 years. So 33 years ago, we were partners in her wedding, and because we were in the wedding party. And so just said hello, and that was that. Weeks pass and she calls me back and she says he's getting divorced. He's really sad, he doesn't know what to do. This is really tough on him, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, well, if he wants to talk, you know, let him call me, which he did not. Fast forward, I was having a dinner party with my high school friends and everybody. And I said, you know, if he wants to come, surely have him come. But lo and behold, he came shortly thereafter. We started dating. And we dated for about two years. Oh. And it was really nice because it felt very comfortable. So that was probably within a year and a half, two years of after my divorce. So it was it was pretty quick. But he was really the first dating person. I didn't really date anybody else for that those two years. And then he came into my life and we spent another two years together. So that was my first experience of dating after divorce. So it didn't, it didn't last though. No, and it was wonderful. Um, and I have no regrets about any of it. It was just that I was so young, young in divorce, that I think I was just trying to find my footing. He also was recently divorced, but and I'm gonna say this men really want to be not be alone, right? They want to be with someone. Therefore, we were just a different, we had different mindsets. And so we said we broke up because I just wasn't ready, and he I guess was. He got married shortly thereafter we broke up, actually.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Oh, really? Well, yeah. Well, I do read that, Jackie, uh about men, that they will after divorce or death, they will tend to repartner much faster than women do for that reason. They they want to be with somebody. And yeah, I I I find that really interesting.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

Well, there was a statistic years ago, that said. And it it included it was inclusive of women and men. Usually six to ten years after a divorce, you get remarried or live together or have you know a commitment, a committed relationship. I don't know if it's still the same, but I read that several years ago. Uh, what about dating apps? Did you go on dating apps at all? After that, I did. I don't know how long after, I can't remember, because this is a while back. And I always say, because again, this was my experience. My experience was that I never really went on a bad date. Only once I tried to, you know, sneak out. But other than that, I never really went on a bad date. I never sustained a relationship with any of the ones I dated, maybe a couple months, maybe six months, but not never more than that. And I just found dating apps to take up too much time and energy. But, you know, everybody says, how else are you gonna meet somebody? Well, you know, there are ways.

SPEAKER_01 12:26

You say you went off the apps, I'm assuming. I went off the apps.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

I was on and off and on and off and on and off. You know, you did that. I was I dated somebody for a very sure maybe a month, and I went off and I haven't gone back on, and now that's been probably three years. And are you are you staying off? Have you decided you don't want to go back on? I moved to a new place, which is very much a summer population, right? So I know things are gonna change a lot as soon as the weather gets nice here and the summer comes in. So I'm kind of saying to myself, there's so many opportunities to meet somebody organically in the summer, based on where I live, than there is in the winter. So I'm kind of waiting this out and I'm gonna see because I talk to so many women who are on the apps and are like, it's not even worth it. And so, you know, I hear that over and over and over again. So I guess we'll see.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's kind of where I'm at. So I'll I'll elaborate on that later. How how would you describe dating in our generation and our demographic or baby boomers versus when we, you know, when we were in our 20s or 30s?

SPEAKER_02 13:43

First of all, to clarify, I was not a big dater. I wasn't the girl who had a boyfriend in high school. I wasn't, I wasn't that person. I always hung out with like groups of people, but I never really had a boyfriend like many of my friends. And not until I went off to college did I meet someone when I came home from college in my freshman year who actually was in my high school class. Never met him because my my graduating class had like 850 people in it. So you didn't know everybody. Met him, dated him for like three years. While I was dating him, I met my now ex-husband, and then things changed. But I was never a big dater. So basically, the answer to you about dating is pretty much no, I haven't, because I met my husband when I was 21 and we got married when I was 23. So it was kind of like that's young, very short, right? Very short-lived. So I don't know much about dating in general. So you're learning now. You're learning now since post-divorce. I think so. But now it's a big trust issue, and we can get into that later, but that really plays a huge part in dating for me.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Absolutely. Yeah. Well, especially for you, Jackie, because you know, you were betrayed in such a huge way, and it takes a while to build trust again, I would think. Absolutely true.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

However, it was such a betrayal. I mean, I I guess deep down in my heart and soul, and I guess I really hope that there aren't many men out there like that, but it still is more difficult for me to trust in just in general.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

I I get it. Absolutely. And we'll be right back. So I've been widowed nine years. My husband died in 2017. I didn't realize it was that long, Barb. Wow. I I can barely realize it either, Jackie. I I like I just what his the the anniversary of his death was just recently. And it's like nine years. I mean, I can remember the day so vividly, everything. I can remember what I was wearing. Anyway, I think it was about a year and a half later, I decided to try dating apps because I knew that was what everybody was doing, and I felt that I was ready. And I actually had done a ton of dating. I I was a big time, I had boyfriends from the time I was about 15. But the thing is, Jackie, um, which I have shared in previous and some of the early podcasts, dating and boys took precedence over my schoolwork. So if the truth were known. So I went on the apps and uh went on a few dates, and um it jolted my system so much because it was such a change. It was, I'd been with the, you know, I'd been with my husband for 32 years, and here I am considering being with somebody completely different. About four years ago was my first romantic relationship. So in those four years, I had about six different relationships, five of them that were romantic. But uh I felt incredibly disrespected. And uh plus I had scammers. I had about four people pretending they're somebody that they're actually not. And I just I deactivated all my apps, and I just thought, this is too hard on me emotionally. And with every one of them, it was a process of I just felt assaulted spiritually, emotionally, and and then getting over it. I thought, I can't take this, I just can't take this. And you know, when you and I were talking on the phone the other day, what we were saying, you're looking for now it's somebody that you can be a companion with, somebody you can trust. And I just find so many of them were emotionally unavailable. I just it just thought nothing of being uh unbelievably disrespectful. And so I thought, let me think, kind of focus on what are the pluses of being on your own. So why don't we talk about that? What are the what are the there's downsides of being a single person, for sure, but there's also upsides.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

And I just want to go back for a minute with one of the things you said about, you know, dating and disrespect and companionship. As a therapist, and I think this is where my background comes in, like infiltrates me personally as well. I'm looking for a lot more than that. And I I'm not sure at this age I'll ever find it. I mean, I need to have somebody in my life who's gonna have those deep conversations, gonna be willing to talk about their feelings. I mean, those things to me right now are so important. And I'm really not sure after 32 years of marriage and being with somebody for almost 35 years that ever came into play as far as he was concerned, right? I knew I was great at this, but I also remember having to like yank it out of him. Like, how are you feeling? What happened? Um, you know, not just superficial stuff. And I remember that was difficult for him. And I'm not sure I want to go through that again. I want somebody who's gonna be able to be, as you said, emotionally available, which is all a part of it, as well as trustworthy. So I think, you know, I have a pretty high bar. And then what are the pluses to being on your own, right? So here I am. I'm on my own. So to answer your question, I think there are a lot of pluses for being on your own, but I also think there are a lot of negatives. And as I get older, I somehow, and for as long as I've been on my own and totally alone for the past three years, I feel like I would love to have somebody in my life now, but again, the bar is really high. And what am I going to compromise and what am I not going to compromise? And I kind of feel like I probably won't compromise anything second time around. But who knows, right? I mean, attraction, falling in love, those things kind of happen without you knowing. And then you kind of then you will make those compromises along the way. But the pluses of being on your own, right? And I I talked to myself about this. You can come and go if you please. You can say yes and no to things you want to do it. You can do it at different times. If you get up in the middle of the night, you want to put your light on and read a book, you can do it, right? If you want to stay out with your girlfriends, if you want, you know, all of those kinds of things, no matter what you want to watch on TV, it's your choice. You don't have to do something somebody else, or you don't have to say, oh, what do you want for dinner? Oh, well, okay, I'm gonna cook that because that's what you want. Maybe I don't really want it, or what restaurant do you want to cook? Like all of those things make it easy to be single. However, the downside, and I I do talk about this often to many people, even my clients. It's like, hey, I'm really busy today. Could you stop at the cleaners and pick up my clothes? Or can you stop at the grocery store on the way home? Or, you know, it's your turn to cook. Those things you don't have, right? So everything belongs to you, whether you're paying the mortgage, the insurance, doing your taxes, like the big things and the small things. This all belongs to you.

SPEAKER_01 21:48

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I I feel the same. I I just, I mean, I tend to kind of in my life in general, look at okay, this is this is my situation right now. How can I make the best of it? And and I've just chosen to to focus right now on being on my own. I mean, fortunately, I'm able to financially. And fortunately, like you, I have a number of very Close friends that are close by, and I have my family. This is what I think is a luxury. It's the absence of tension in the house. It's the absence of having to negotiate, compromise. It's the absence of dealing with somebody's moods. It's the absence of the uncertainty. I mean, that's what I experienced a lot with the men that I was I had dated in these last four, three or four years. Is where are we going with this? And there's there's times that I sit here in the evening and I, you know, I take a lot of pride in how my home is and just think, gosh, this is luxurious. Oh, I can watch whatever I want. I can go to bed whenever I want. There's so much freedom. And also, Jackie, to echo what you said, my bars pretty high right now, too. But you know, so what? Yes. Just you know, I I just thought I'm not settling anymore. I am not settling for disrespectful behavior. Right. And also, like you, I like to dive deep into conversations. And so many men don't seem to have the ability to do that. Yes. True. So true.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

But yeah, I I I started to giggle a little when you were talking because I kind of came to my mind, I was married to a man that literally, and this is no joke, I could put things on a bookshelf and you know, because I love to decorate, I love home things, and I even do it for other people. And I would move something, and sure enough, he would come in and move it somewhere else because he didn't think it looked as good as where he wanted it. And I remember when we were first married, that was like the most irritating thing ever to me. It's like, okay, isn't this what I'm supposed to be doing? Because this is what I really love to do. And you'll come in and go, Yeah, not quite. Or, you know, I would cook dinner, and again, not to, you know, blow my own horn, but anybody who knows me, I'm a really good cook. But he would inevitably go, Oh, probably a little more salt or a little more pepper. And I would be like, Okay. Nothing was quite right. No. And you know, it didn't hit me until much later in our marriage. Like, you know, at first, I don't know. I didn't even think about it. And, you know, and it would be complimentary as well. I can't say that. But it was just like little things that you think when you're in a relationship, whether you're married or not, right, you think belong to you, like setting up the bookshelf. But suddenly they don't. It's just, yeah. But again, dating, when I think about kids, right? I am not sure. And yes, I have adult children, I have seven grandchildren. I'm really not sure how much I want to bring somebody else into it when I go visit my kids. Like I love my one-on-one time with them because I don't get to see any of them very often. And with my grandchildren. And I remember when I was in that two-year relationship, he would always say to me, Well, can I come with you if I was going to see a kid? Or I was going to some family event. And I would always say no. And I knew, I mean, that was all telling, right? I just I don't know. That was for me. And I still don't know if I'd be good at that.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Yeah, that's a tough one. Well, I'm so close to my, I've only got one grandchild, and you know, his dad is my son. They just live 50 minutes away. So I see them all the time. So I want somebody that can easily fit into my family, you know, knows how to relate to young children. And one of the men that I dated for a few months had never had children, and he didn't have nieces and nephews either. And I just thought, I just can't see this working. We have a relationship with our adult children that's established. And do you want somebody to say, I don't think you should say that. I don't think you should do that. Why don't you do? You know, I tend to be really generous with my kids, and I I don't want somebody to tell me not to be.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Well, and by the same token, like I'll fly out to see my son. He's talking about generous, he'll send me a ticket and say, Hey, mom, come, such and such, can you come? The kids are off to school or whatever. And he's great about it. And the point is, I don't want somebody saying, Oh, I don't want you going then. Really? Because I'm going. You know, right, right. Yeah. Or can I come with you? And it's the you know, but you know, eventually I'm sure it would work. You know, you figure it out. But I also believe just what you said, Barb, I think it's a huge red flag to have somebody who's never had children and don't really have the desire or have the family values in general that I have or you have, because families are so important to us. And if you meet somebody whose family's not important to them, that's a problem. I know, I know. Because then they just want your attention and and they'll suck the life out of you.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

That wouldn't do. That would not do. It just wouldn't. Just saying. Yeah, just saying, yeah. Well, and I I just have got to the point where also I think, you know, with these past relationships, the stuff that I tolerated, I think I deserve better. And it's taken me a long time to have that sink in in my soul. I deserve better. I don't deserve to be yelled at. I don't deserve the sort of uncertainty and the you know, the tension and all this stuff. I I I just I just don't, and I I'm not gonna have it.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

No, nor should you. I mean, that those are, you know, what we talk about in therapy all the time within any relationship, whether it's with parents or kids or whoever, I mean, then those are still your boundaries. You have to have know what's important to you and have those boundaries for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Jackie, this just came to mind because you are a therapist. You pretend you've got, if you or maybe you've had this person come to you and say, I've been on my own, I'm now single through whatever re for whatever reason, um, and I want to start dating again. What should I be looking for? What should I, what what are what are some red flags? I I I want some guidelines.

SPEAKER_02 28:45

That's a good question. It really is. And as a therapist, obviously, I throw it back on them like what's important to you? And you have to look at what's important to you. What would be something that would make you say no to somebody who wants to date you? What is it in their background, or what have they exposed that you just don't agree with, or you know, any of that? I think you have to really be true to yourself. And I think that takes a lot of self-work and through therapy to finally know, okay, what is it? And then you can sit down with your therapist and yeah, do some pros and cons. And believe me, many people come in and say, What do you tell me what to do? What would you do? I mean, all that. So as a good therapist, you're really not going to do that. I mean, certainly, not to say that I'm great, I will make some suggestions. And whether that works for them or not, again, I will say, you might want to try this or you might want to try that, and it may not work for you because I don't want anybody ever coming back to me and saying, Well, you said and I was gonna date that guy, and then I decided not to because of what you said. You know, none of that. I never want to hear that. You have to be able to work with your therapist, set up your boundaries, know what you're looking for, and know what you want and you don't want, and be very aware, and you mentioned this earlier, of the scams out there. I mean, I had one too. We had really kind of a great phone conversation over and over again until finally he was out of town and his credit card didn't work. Oh, no. And he needed to get home, and how could I help him? And that, you know, that was the end of that.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

And we'll be right back, I just find so many people, and probably mostly women, that don't really get that, that if they're being treated disrespectfully, just just not valued, you know, they neglect the relationship, that they haven't really integrated this whole idea, I deserve better. I've had to have those conversations with myself, and why am I tolerating this?

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah, and you know, Barb, you're so right, but it's it's also brings me right to the whole domestic violence, whether it's emotional, physical, or mental, right? Um, how many people, and I can throw myself in that mix, put up with a relationship, whether it's a marriage or something else, because you just don't want to lose it for whatever your reasons are, right? And they may be reasons nobody knows about, they just belong to you. And, you know, from the outside looking in, it's like, why would you put up with that? Why would you do this? Why, you know, why, why, why? But until you're in that person's shoes, and sadly, I think there are women, certainly our age, in their 60s, in their 70s, who just will put up with almost anything to have somebody in their life because they don't want to be alone.

SPEAKER_01 31:54

I know, I know. I I was gonna say that, which brings us to the topic of being able to really enjoy your own company and love yourself. We did an episode of my my friend Denise Torgeson that comes on all the time. We did a whole episode on, you know, what does self-love look like? Because I bet you enjoy your own company, Jackie, don't you?

SPEAKER_02 32:17

Yes. I mean, because I have things that I enjoy doing with myself, you know, whether it's some television, movies, reading, cooking, you know, making some phone calls to people who live, you know, I have a lot of friends who live out of my country, and it's it's delightful. So I mean, it fills up, you're not sitting around. And and again, I have to reinforce a million times being alone does not equal lonely by any means. Oh, and 100% right. And, you know, I even myself, when I first was divorced, I'm like, okay, you're the biggest loser. He's already off with his girlfriend and whatever, and here you are, nobody, right? And one day, my one of my children, I want to say it was my son, maybe, who always said, I look at single women in general as much stronger people than people who always have to be with somebody. And I was like, that's probably true. Yeah, I think it's true. But you have to find your own strength. You have to find your own strength, your own what you want, and whether that means having a lot of faith, right? And there's a lot of people who turn to their churches and you know get involved. And I I'm a big get involved person. I think it's really important to be involved in something, volunteering for something. Know that, you know, you can feel good when you help somebody else or do something. And I don't mean to the extent where you're neglecting you or you're just trying to hide behind it. I just mean doing it because you enjoy it and you know, it makes you feel good.

SPEAKER_01 33:51

I think it's so much of it is really knowing what fuels us, what feeds you. And, you know, it's all it's different for everybody, but but first of all, you have to kind of uh just examine that. Who are the people, what are the things, the activities that uh makes you feel most alive, makes you feel most authentic. I mean, I absolutely value connection hugely, like like you, and I get in touch with you people all the time. Equally, I love my solitude. I d I love it. I I I just so serge and I raised four kids, and which meant for a very busy household for many, many, many years. Uh and and here I am, just me, no nobody, nobody to cook for, nobody to drive to a lesson, nobody to, you know, all these things. And I I just find it luxurious. Actually, you know, I I'm learning French and I have a French tutor, and she's also single in her 50s, and we talk about it being in French, it's uh lux is a luxury. It's it's a luxury being on your own because of the of the freedom, liberté of of being of being on your own, and it truly is. And just to reiterate what you just said, Jackie, enjoying your own company, being alone is absolutely not the same as being lonely. I bet you don't ever feel lonely. Do you feel lonely? I don't. I don't.

SPEAKER_02 35:27

Because again, to me, if I'm in that space where I'm really happy being by myself, but I get to a point where I don't want to be, that means I go out for a walk. That means I put on some good music. That means I look at my life. I mean, I love my work, I love any volunteering that I do all the time. I love going to the gym and meeting up with this group that I literally work out with. You know, I look forward to those things. So you fill up your life, and by the time you're alone, you're really not lonely. Like you're just trying to figure out how to keep everything going. Right, right. And and and enjoying that time, that downtime that you just breathe and enjoy and do the things that, well, certainly in my profession, teach other people to do. Right. Because you don't want to be overwhelmed, you don't want to be so stressed. You have to find that balance. And when you find the balance, you're not going to be lonely.

SPEAKER_01 36:33

You've taken full charge of your single life because I think it's so easy to for people to say, I'm all by myself. I don't have somebody to do this and to, but you've crafted a really full life for yourself. Nobody did it for you. You've done it yourself.

SPEAKER_02 36:49

No, and I moved to a place where I didn't know a soul until I found out some of my high school friends lived not too far. But basically, I just met all new people. It was a whole new life for me. I did it on purpose. I knew, however, that I had some relatives within an hour away, either direction. But my everyday life was going to be by myself for the most part and trying to navigate a new beginning, a new chapter, and all the things that we say. And it was the best thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

See? Yeah. Yeah. I think we we we do have agency, whether whether we put it into practice or not, is up to us. Yeah, I I've got different things going on, but things that really, and certainly doing this podcast is enormously fulfilling. And and I get to have those deep dive conversations without depending on a man to oh well, I will bring I'll bring up something different.

SPEAKER_02 37:47

And this is called, I don't know if you've heard about it, it's interesting. And the we, even this podcast, could be helpful to those people, right? It's called the gray divorce.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:57

The people who gay divorce. Right? The gray divorce is like a really big deal, and there's more and more articles being written on it and what people are doing. And to your point, too, more. I guess from our phone call a couple of times, we talk about all the single travel groups that are there, right? And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're a single person. Some people just go because they don't have husbands or partners that want to do it, right? And they enjoy just, you know, why miss out on something you want to do just because you're by yourself? Exactly. That's crazy. I mean, I go to music sometimes and I always would love to have some, but I know eventually, because I'm live in town with a lot of music, I'll run into somebody I know, but it doesn't matter. I'll get there by myself and I'm fine. You know, I go because I'm doing something I enjoy, which is whatever the band is that's playing that I like to hear. But yeah, it you have to become comfortable on your own, not just in your own home and in your own space, but in your going to the outside, whether it's this is case in point. I would travel occasionally to conferences when I was still married. And if I was up in a hotel for you know a couple days and I would go out to eat, certainly by myself. That was fun. And I remember my husband at the time would always say to me, How do you do that? And I would say, How do you not do it? I wanted to go to the restaurant by myself. I won. Oh, no, no, no. You should just like eat chips in your room or something. And I would be like, No. And then I would also often go to the movie by myself because I love movies and he wasn't as into it. And again, why how can you go to the movies by yourself? I said, because you don't want to go. And I wanted to see it, you know. So I think I had a sense of independence on one hand, um, prior to my divorce, which was kind of helpful. Like I I enjoyed things on my own, you know, especially when, as you said too, I had three kids at home with all their friends, with the doll, with the rabbit, with whatever else was in our household. And, you know, every once in a while you just needed that break. So no problem with that, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:06

That's that's great. Honestly, I think this is really important to enjoy your own company because nobody knows if they're gonna end up alone, right? Nobody, nobody predicts a divorce, nobody predicts a uh a death. Um, so you don't you don't know. So it's important to enjoy your own company, be comfortable in your own skin.

SPEAKER_02 40:29

Yes, and that's a big thing. Like I have people, several, and mostly men, interestingly enough, that will come in and say, I know I'm supposed to love myself, I don't know how to do that. What am I supposed to do? Look, well, first of all, you have to know who you are. Um, but yeah, they have trouble because again, how many of us, especially boomers, when you were getting married, right? With everybody said, like two halves, now you're a whole. And it's really, you know, and so if I'm supposed to be whole because I got married, what happens when I am not married anymore? Am I not whole? You know, you've been whole all along. Right. But the thing is, I mean, they that used to be like something people would say, you know, and the old, oh, you're better half. Well, really, because I'm still whole. Or they would say, and I I also always thought this was interesting, well, you have to split things 50-50. Really? No. 100 and 100, I got it, but not 50-50. So it's like, you know, it's it's been ingrained a lot, a lot.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Yeah, there's lots of things that have been ingrained in us as boomers, and that we have to kind of dispel some of those myths. So what if so when a man comes to you and says, I know I'm supposed to love myself, but I don't know how, what steps? What's step one?

SPEAKER_02 41:56

Step one is to ask them, what do you like about yourself? They're coming up with something. Okay, I mean, I don't care if they tell me, oh, because I still have hair on my head. I mean, I don't care. Whatever they say. And then you kind of just jump off and say, okay, so that's one thing you like about yourself. What else do you like about yourself? And you kind of go down this line of positivity until they start to recognize, oh, yeah, I'm not so bad, right? I'm not so bad. I mean, my wife might not like me, but I'm pretty good, you know, and they kind of, you know, and it's not in the egotistical way. And I think sometimes that's part of the issue, right? If I start to think I'm great about something, well, you know, especially a man, right, who is arrogant and has that ego going on. Because nine times out of ten, those men are just the most insecure men. So if you can kind of you know, teach the way, let them find their way. It works. It really works.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Yeah, that's it. That's a good thing for all of us to know. How do you love yourself? What do you do to love yourself? And there's, you know, we all have messages that we have taken from childhood. If anybody's ever criticized you, or if you grew up in a home that you you didn't feel that you were good enough, that has been so deeply programmed into you and difficult to love yourself if you've been told over and over again, you know, you only got a B. Why didn't you get an A? Or, you know, try and look at look at what such and such doing. Why can't you do that? And lots of people have grown up with those messages, and it's it's hard to erase them.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Oh, it is, and you're not going to, right? Those are gonna be things in your head. It's just how do you address them now, right? They're not going away. I always say this, you know, people are like, oh, forgive and forget. No, you can always forgive, you're never gonna forget. Short of a lobotomy. I mean, it's not happening. And you know, oh, you can forget about that. No, not really. And so when you talk about things that happened in childhood, and and this has been with me all my life, I'm very tall. Very tall. I'm five'9. There are women taller than me. And but I have long arms and long legs, and my mother could never get any clothes to fit me. I finally had. That used to sew for me. It's crazy stuff. And I always wanted everything everybody else had. And my sleeves were too short and my pants were too short and all that. But anyway, regardless, my mother, God rest her soul, would always be like, Why do you have to be so tall? And why are you so skinny? And why are you this? And why are you that? And eventually, you know, you're like, Oh, I shouldn't be like this. And every single Christmas, I had an aunt who would come and she would always hadn't seen, she wouldn't see me very often. And she would go, Oh, you grew again? How do you even get close to fit? And I mean, over and over and over again until I was like forever. And you know, it was just like it was really hard, and it's been really hard. So even what's interesting now, when we go back to dating, right? What's the first thing I look for? Somebody who's tall. Because I, I mean, I don't care if they're like my height is fine. But what does everybody say? I mean, even when I had my relationship, oftentimes I love wearing high heels. I wear high heels almost every day. And and and he was relatively tall himself, but if I put on heels, I was probably a little bigger. And he would be like, Do you have to wear heels that high? Do you have to? And I'm like, Yeah, I have to.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

This is who I am. This is what I like. And I'm gonna wear what I like.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

Yeah. So again, another point in being on your own. You can do what you want.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah. Where would have you? You know what, Jackie? I don't have that problem of finding somebody taller than me. I know. If they're over 12, they're taller than me.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

True. So I also made sure that I would never make those comments to my girls. And they're tall. And one's shorter than me, one's a little bit taller than me. But I that was never gonna be their issue. And I think, you know, boomers, it was one thing. Now there's a lot more tall women and women who are proud to be tall.

SPEAKER_01 46:22

Well, a fact of life is that we do not choose our height. Gosh, we're coming to the end here. We could I could go on for another hour. Yeah, I you know what? This is one of those episodes that we could listen to again, and what what can we extract from it that that we could expand on?

unknown 46:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

And there's lots, I think there's lots of things that we could do. So this is my time to thank you again for coming on. It's such a ah such a fun conversation. And and we both enjoy these kinds of conversations, right? Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, I enjoy it so much. Me too.

SPEAKER_02 47:08

So tell the people again how they can reach you. Jackie at JackieAdamsCounseling.com. You can send an email to that address without any problems. Okay, okay. Very enjoyable. Very enjoyable. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

This episode is written and created by me, Barb Demaray, produced, edited, and engineered by Mela. Many thanks to our guests today for making it possible. And if you enjoyed it as much as we did recording it, follow us on your favorite podcast player. Also, we are now on YouTube at what's next. Thanks for listening.