To Gift Or Not To Gift? That Is The Question.

It's Season 10! Thank you all for tuning in all these years!!! 

In our season premiere, we dive into a thought-provoking topic: passing down your wealth while you're still around to see it make a difference. Should you consider gifting part of your children’s inheritance now, rather than waiting until after you’re gone? We discuss the emotional and financial impacts, practical benefits, and potential pitfalls of giving early, with insights from financial advisors, Grant Bell and Tyson Macmillan from TD Wealth.

Whether it’s to help with a home, education, or just to see your loved ones enjoy their future today, we’ll explore why gifting might be a fulfilling, life-changing choice—for you and your family. Tune in for a candid, heartfelt conversation that could reshape how you think about your legacy!

Connect with Grant Bell via email at grant.bell@td.com
Connect with Tyson Macmillan via email at tyson.macmillan@td.com

We're excited to now be part of the SuperAging News Network, the most authoritative online source of news, trends and ideas on longevity and the SuperAging Revolution -- getting older without getting old. Check it out here, and be sure to sign up for their newsletter!

Find Barb on Instagram @barbjanet .

If you like our show, make sure you follow us on your favourite Podcast player. Feel free to rate and review our show and tell us what you'd like to hear, and what other topics you'd like Barb to explore!

Transcript

What’s Next? Conversations with Boomers

S10.EP01: Inheritances with Grant Bell and Tyson Macmillan

Barb: You are listening to “What’s Next? Conversations with Boomers” and I’m your host, Barb Desmarais. 

We’re excited to now be part of The Super Aging News Network, the most authoritative online source of news, trends and ideas on longevity and the Super Aging Revolution—getting older without getting old. Find the link in our show notes and be sure to sign up for their newsletter.

So today, we are talking about something we actually have never talked about, and that is inheritance. So the question we’re going to address today is should we gift a portion of our children’s inheritance now or wait ‘till we pass? Baby boomers statistically are living much longer than previous generations, in fact, apparently, the fastest demographic right now is centarians…centurions? Centarions? What are they called? Centurions? [Laugh] People that live past a hundred!

Grant: You don't get a letter from the Queen anymore because there's too many 

Barb: No! There’s…It’s.. yeah! It happens so often, no letter from the Queen or the King.

So we’re all living much longer, which means our millennial children may not be receiving their inheritance until they’re in their 50s or 60s, and not when they really need it. 

So today we have on Tyson Macmillan, hello Tyson!

Tyson: Hello! I’m Tyson.

Barb: And Grant Bell.

Grant: Hi, I’m Grant.

Barb: Who are both investment advisors and portfolio managers with TD, and for those of you who don’t live in Canada, that stands for the Toronto Dominion Bank. Grant has looked after my portfolio for decades! Okay, so welcome Tyson and Grant! 

Grant: Thanks for having us.  

Barb: We’re going to start just with a really basic question, that is giving your inheritance or a portion of it early, rather than waiting—what are the advantages of doing that?

Grant: The advantage of giving the inheritance early is, to your point, it’s often when the child needs it, if they're adult children, uh, maybe when they needed to build a home or or or buy a home or start a business. There's also the ability for you to have complete fairness across your children. So, uh, making sure that each of them are addressed. You're able to communicate, you know, your decision. There is no tax for you to gift money to your children. So you can do that. You can never receive that money back, uh, at some later date. But if you're just giving that money to your children, that would be a tax free transaction.

So there are a lot of advantages there. You also reduce your estate tax upon your passage because, of course, there's less in your estate as you've already gifted that to your children. I think it it there's a few things that, you know, you'd be allowed to do with your kids. You don't explain your perspectives. You would build a set of expectations. You'd probably encourage a certain level of communication with your children as far as what their intentions are with those funds. We see very wide differences in viewpoints on this. Um, but those would be the advantages that I could see. Maybe Tyson has a few more?

Tyson:

Yeah. I mean, I would just add, if you're in a position, you know, to start, you find that you're in a position that you realize you're going to have excess, you know, so you've done your financial planning, your retirement plan is in place. You know, you're going to have a residual estate. The benefit is that you're going to be able to give these funds to your children when they really need them. Obviously, you know, they're going to like to have them at any point in time, you know, whether or not they have to wait longer or get them sooner. But realistically, there may be a time in their life when they can get more value out of having those funds sooner. And we live in here in Vancouver, where the cost of real estate, I think, is maybe higher than almost anywhere in the world. You have some children that are starting a family and trying to get into a home for that family in the city, being able to give them some additional assistance to help them get started in that home might be something that they really need and really benefits them now, it might not benefit them as much in 10 or 20 years, but it really benefits them now. Now you also then get the joy of being able to help your kids and see them enjoy the funds that you've been able to provide them and see the life that you've been able to enable them to have. So I think that's another big factor. I mean, they call it giving with a warm hand. And I think, you know, the big thing that comes out of that is being able to actually see the joys of what you've created, being able to be passed on to the next generation. 

Barb: What good answers! Yeah, I like what you said, Grant, about, you know, the fairness factor. “You’re each getting X amount of dollars.” And, and as you said, Tyson, you get the joy of seeing how they’re gonna spend and, and benefit from that money.

People my age, our kids are in their 30s, and many times 40s, and millennials are struggling right now. And they’re not that they’re sitting around doing nothing, they’re hard working and just, you know, it’s… here in Vancouver, I think it’s the same in Toronto, so many cities where it’s, it’s tough. The price of houses, even the cost of rent, it’s ridiculous.

So, what are the disadvantages?

Tyson:

One of the disadvantages would be if you, for example, gave your child some money to invest in their homes. So say a couple hundred thousand and they married and along the way and there was a marital breakup. Uh, those assets are now exposed. So those assets would be part of their family. And so upon their split, you would probably see those assets and dissipate. Anyways, the other part would be, less incentive for them to continue to earn their own way. So if you're concerned about your child, uh, taking their foot off the gas because, you know, they have an easier path, that may be a negative, uh, for that as well. Uh, we have some clients, that are worth, um, tens of millions of dollars. And not only do they not tend to give their children any of their funds, it's a bit bizarre to me, but they will they will set up trust upon their passing, and they will continue to dole out funds to their children. And they probably won't give them the funds until they're 60, because their belief is that money is just. It's an enabler of too many bad choices and bad things. Um, so I think, you know, there is the danger that,  it's not used the way it was intended.

Barb: Mmmm…

Grant: I would add to that, you know, struggling is kind of part of this development process of becoming an adult, right? I mean, everybody goes through some kind of struggle. You know, everybody who's created a massive net worth, you know, has probably gone through some struggles in their lives to get there. And what you don't want to do is take away your ability for your children to, you know, overcome and become independent adults on their own. So you don't want to give them so much that they can. Well, actually, I like to quote, uh, Warren Buffett here. Everybody knows Warren Buffett. He said his thoughts on giving to his children was, I want to give them enough to do anything, but not so much to do nothing. Right? So this is where it gets a little bit nuanced. And, you know, you think about the motivation for why you're giving the funds. And, you know, as long as you know, you feel like the values that you have that you've wanted to instill in your kids are present, that they're hard working and you know, they're doing all the right things and they're going through, you know, they've gone through an education and they've got a bunch of student loans. You want to help with those student loans. You know, they're working really hard. They're trying to afford their first house. You're helping with that house. They want to start a business because they've got a great idea. They poured a lot of their own sweat and their own whatever they've saved into that. That's great. You can help meet them halfway to make sure that that business has a better chance of getting off the ground. So I think, you know, one of the things you consider is in that regard is, you know, what are the what do they bring to the table? Are they working hard or they, you know, have they at least brought some of their own savings to try and contribute? You just got to avoid that idea that they're just, you know, getting accustomed to this, leaning on the bank of mom and dad and, you know, knowing that there always is always going to be an easy way. Um, so that would be kind of the thing to avoid. But again, it becomes kind of nuanced. To Grant’s point, you know, some people are going to want to give it a little bit sooner, and it might be a little bit, it might be a lot. And some people are going to want to give it to their kids later or not at all, depending on, you know, the values within their own family. 

Barb: Grant?

Grant: There’s two other things I think about. One is where the origination of the funds is because if you have to sell something and there's capital gains or could be taxed to pay on assets that you're disposing, or if you're transferring something to your children in kind, there may be taxes to pay. They would likely also be responsible for all the taxes on those monies moving forward. So, for example, if you gave them real estate, there would be a fair market value on the deed of transfer. And then after that any future gains would accrue to them. So and if you were, for example, at a portfolio of stocks and you had to sell your portfolio stocks to raise the money to give them, and if there are gains on those stocks, then of course there might be a tax bill. So there are practical things to consider. Uh, but one thing that we like is, you know, the teaching financial responsibility, managing money, looking at short term needs and long term goals and just sort of setting those expectations for your for your kids and just letting them sort through how this would, you know, impact their future years and their family years of their own. So, uh, overall, we're probably in favor of it, but it needs to be the right situation where the family is stable and your children are working hard and progressing through life, and you're providing, uh, a bit of support for that, because I do think that there's merit to your point, Barb, is, you know, why wait till they're 70 when they don't need it, when they really could use it in their late 20s and 30s? 40s?

Tyson: Yeah. That’s where all the, you know, you have the big expenses coming to you, right? You've got, you know, your education expenses. You're starting a family. You may be having a, you know, getting married and a wedding is, you know, we know how much weddings cost. You know, there's all these expenses that kind of come early in life. And, you know, it feels like that's when often kids could really use a little bit of help. But I think the key is just how much. Right? And then depends on the the net worth of the family. If you have you're blessed with a significant net worth. Then to Grant's point, maybe you want to try them out with a little bit early, you know, and just to see how they manage it, see if they're responsible with it. And that can help be a bit of a, you know, a feedback to you and how you want to structure your, you know, your your estate that goes to them, you know, terminally. So you start with something now that, you know, may help you glean some information on how to structure your estate later.

Barb: These are all really great answers, I mean, it comes down to common sense on the part of the parent, for one thing because as you’ve brought up, you don’t want to enable your kids to just sit back and do nothing when they’re in their 30s. Obviously, you know, by giving them so much money they never have to work again. That’s just not wise.

I had a conversation just the other day with a man, who’s obviously, late 30s, millennial. He’s got a very good job, his wife is a nurse, they’ve got 2 little kids, and they live here, and uh, he said, ‘It is just so hard to get by. It’s just so hard to make ends meet.’ And there’s a case with two responsible, hard working people, and you know, they could they could use a bit of a a leg up.

[music]

Barb: And we’ll be right back.  

[music]

Barb: Do you find that when people are are gifting a portion of their inheritance that it’s conditional? This is to be used for X.

Tyson: That’s a that's a good, uh, actually I’m glad you raised that point, because that is kind of a thing to look at. I mean, on both sides. I think in some cases, you know, the parents want to give to their children with some strings attached. Right? And those strings may be, you know, they may be worthwhile in terms of they want to see that, you know, you're going to rise to the occasion, uh, you know, in a good way. But it might also be that that parent is, you know, seeking for a little bit of additional, you know, love or, you know, time with their children, which would I would probably put that in kind of the, the negative cap, you know, you wouldn't want to be giving for those kinds of reasons. It would be, you know, how can we enable our kids to be more successful? But let's not try and curry favor or buy favour with with our children. Um, and the other way around would be, you know, some if kids find out that their parents have a significant net worth and they know that there's some potential to access that, then there's that that potential that they could, you know, find a way to, you know, manipulate their is or is is their manipulation should always be kind of a consideration of the gift or, uh, you know, to avoid the idea that, you know, they're just going to keep coming back and keep coming back for more and more. And it's sort of going to be a never ending kind of loop there. So I think that the motivation is really important and it has to kind of be for the right reasons. So I think that comes down to, again, the family dynamics and just making sure that, you know, there is open communication around what these funds are for and you know, how they're intended to be used. And if there's multiple, you know, beneficiaries to the estate, you know, that there's a fairness in place. So there isn't any kind of feelings of jealousy or envy that, you know, one's being treated more fairly than the other. Um, you know, these kinds of things are the I think are the finer tuned elements that are very specific from family to family. And you have to beinvested in these nuances. Yeah 

Barb: I just, it just seems to me that a parent giving their child, gifting—so this is the important word here, gifting—money to their children with strings attached, you’re just asking for problems in my opinion. Because it just feels to me, it’s so manipulative and controlling. You can have this money, but it better be used for education or it better be used to send your kids to private school or whatever, I don’t know. And, and… and maybe it’s people that we’ve never had a, we’ve never had a really nice vacation or we want to put an addition on our house. We don’t want to use it for that. So there’s sort of a psychological or, you know, a relational issue here, I would think, I mean… when my son got married, I gave them a portion of money, and I basically said, do whatever you want with it. For all I know, they didn’t, they spent their own money on the wedding, and put it aside for something else, I have no idea. I just said, this is for you, use it however you see fit.

Grant: Yeah.

Barb: There was no arguing, no conversation, no nothing. This is my gift to you.

Grant: Yeah. I think it's, you know, people are going to react differently and it may depend on the amount of money involved. And but I think the most important part is you're encouraging that communication between yourself and your children. And if you do feel like you need to put an expectation on to it, then I think it's your right as the gifter to express that if it's something free of all strings, uh, that's fair too. Um, but I think that's all part of the communication process upfront that, hey, this is for you. You could do with it. As you wish. Um, or b, uh, this is for you, but I'd like you to put it towards, um, you know, that's, uh, as long as it's communicated and understood, I think it's, um, it's it's a reasonable ask in the gifter’s part, and it, you know, it's not something that needs to happen right away. It could just be established that, hey, we're going to put, you know, $100,000 a way for each of you to get a leg up on your first home. Maybe there's 3 or 4 kids and, uh, and then at least they know that at some point in the future they, you know, will have a bit of a head start there.

Barb: What if what if the parent says, ‘okay, I’m giving you this money and I want it to be used towards your children’s university.’ And they say, ‘well, I’m not gonna guarantee that my children are going to University. I don’t know what they’re going to be doing’ and the parent, ‘Okay, I won’t give it to you then.’

Grant: Well, they could put it in a trust but that might be expensive. You know I'd have to really look at the amount that they're considering. There's also RESPs so they could fund all the children' education. And those funds would have to be used for education.

Barb: Grant, can you explain RESPs?

Grant: Registered education savings plans. RESP is a program put together by the federal government where you can contribute a certain amount, in this case $2,500 per year per child. And the Government of Canada will put in a 20% top up. So on $2,500, you would get, uh, the government contributing $500. It's not tax deductible off your income, but the money in those plans will grow tax free. And so if you're starting that early and you're putting 2500 in a year, uh, you could contribute up to the age of the child to 16, and then you'd be able to use those funds in retirement. So over the course of all those years, you'd be able to accumulate a reasonable amount, especially with compounding and, and investment, other investment returns. 

Tyson: And then when the, when the beneficiary child of the RESP goes to university, the funds are paid out in their name. So there is a tax benefit in that the child probably has a very low tax bracket. So that's there's a tax benefit. In addition to the fact that the funds have grown tax free that entire time with the grants that the.government Provides. Um. And to clarify, parents and grandparents are eligible to contribute to RESPs for children or for their, I should say, for children or grandchildren. If a grandparent wanted to ensure that the grandchild was to have funds for education, that their child, that their child used the funds for their children's education purposes, they could then contribute directly to the RESP.

Barb: Yeah. It’s a wonderful, it’s a wonderful program. 

Okay, can you give us some kind of real life examples around gifting that you’ve experienced with your clients?

Grant: With regards to the bulk of our experiences, it's been when children are looking to buy their first home and the parents would step in with a sizeable contribution to that first home, because the the children can often maintain their paying rent now. So paying the mortgage moving forward is usually a, you know, a reasonable it's just they don't have the down payment. And that's where a lot of our clients will step in and help their kids. 

Barb: Well, in a housing market like this that’s often the only way these kids can do it.

Tyson: And the. Especially even if you have a high income, it's very difficult to save up enough for a down payment for the for the home that you need at the time that you need it. Um, I was just going to add one thing I know we talked earlier about, you know, one of the risks and depending on this stage of life, you know, if you have a child who is not yet with a partner or they're not married to their partner or, you know, there's for whatever reason, you have a concern that that you know, that funds given to your child may be at risk of a spousal breakup or a partnership breakup. Um, you can structure that as a loan, uh, which means that, you know, it might not be a loan that you ever called, but by structuring it as a loan, it ensures that if that partner were to, uh, a partnership were to break down, then that spouse would not be able to claim the assets because it would technically be in a loan that low could have called, and that would ensure that they weren't able to leave with half of the gifted assets. So it's sometimes a strategy to consider when you are gifting, you know, say, significant portion to a younger child to buy their first home, uh, to make sure that, you know, there is some risk that it all of a sudden gets absconded by a partnership breakdown. 

Barb: Do you find that happening often?

Tyson: Not particularly. I think it's just a common concern of a lot of parents. If they have not yet. You know, again, it's an unmarried child and they haven't not had in a lot of years with their partner because, you know, let's face it, this relationships don't always work out. It may even be a few years in, you know, in this they may be in their late 20s, early 30s and they move on to somebody else. And in most cases, I think people are very decent and the partner would generally not try to claim anything that they didn't feel they had a right to. And they probably don't feel that in this case. But, you know, it's just a way to avoid, the situation from ever happening. So if that's a concern that some people may have this as a way to avoid that. You can set that up via living trust or as well if you want to. If you want to put some parameters around your gift, there are ways to do that. 

Barb: And this is all in writing and with signatures, etc? 

Grant: Yes. You know most of ours experience has been around just because of the logistics around managing a trust and the expenses attached to it, filing a tax return for it, it's also taxed quite heavily. They really aren't used as much unless you're looking for that kind of ironclad structure. And more of ours is the informal gifting between parents and their children. 

[music]

Barb: And we’ll be right back.

[music] 

Barb: And you must deal with family dynamics a lot. Okay, you’re investment advisors, but there’s all sorts of different dynamics within families and issues. And money is such a trigger and a contentious issue often. And I don’t even know if you could answer this, but we did an episode on estrangement. So many families are experiencing, their kids, just being estranged, they have anything to do with them. What what do people do in that case? In terms of inheritance, does that child get a gift as well? What do you do in that case?

Grant: We’ve seen it where the children have come back, where perhaps the children don't have their parent's best interests in mind and families that are very cohesive, and there's open communication and everything's on the table. And I just find that there's a very stark differences between families and how they manage that. And you never know what's happened through the years that has caused this level of dysfunction, you know, perhaps. But uh, our job is, is to protect the capital for our clients. And so if we get the sense that the children are acting in an improper manner or they don't have their parent's best interests at heart, it really raised the alarm flags for us, especially as people get older. And maybe their mental capacity is diminished a bit and they're unsure of themselves or they're getting bullied. There are a lot of things out there that are really difficult to see sometimes. But the biggest concern for us is making sure we protect our clients. 

Barb: Mhm. I’m sure it can get really difficult because, so you’ve got a child that has had nothing to do with their parent for years, and years, and years, and years, and years, and suddenly they surface. 

Grant: Yeah.

Barb: ’I’d like a portion of my inheritance, please.’

Grant: We just had that. We just had a client that that passed away. His daughter was estranged from him. He decided that he wanted to give his house to his sister. And now his daughter is challenging that decision and saying that he wasn't at the proper mental capacity. He didn't have the level, mental capacity to make that decision. Because it was something that he did later in his life, and I was with him at the time, and I know that he did have that capacity. He was 100% solid in his thinking. And he had made the decision because of that estrangement, that his daughter had never done anything for him in the last 40 or 50 years, uh, because he was an elderly fellow that he wanted to give it to his sister. And so obviously that wasn't a decision we made. But as by being part of it, you do have your own biases as far as how you hope that all works out. For me, if you don't have a relationship with someone, should you expect a gift from them? I don't know.

Tyson: Mhm.. again, it depends on you. You already mentioned it going back, you know. How did it all happen? How did it break down? And then at the end of the day, I mean, it's it's up to you. You know, if you ask us, the owner of the assets get to decide, you know, what do you want to do. And you know, if you still feel you want to give some more a reduced amount, uh, you know, to to your estranged child, you can do so. But if you don't feel that there's any need to because there's no relationship there, and there may not be any need to in that case, then maybe it goes to charity or somewhere else. Right? I mean, that's, that's I think the, uh, the freedom that you have.

Barb: Yeah, well I can imagine that you both find yourselves involved with these these family dynamics that can be really complicated. I mean, your job as investment advisors, and here you are in the midst of this family dysfunction.

Tyson: Yeah, you get that a lot. 

Grant: And it's not pleasant…sometimes. 

Barb: Oh, I’m sure.

Grant: I would say it's very…it's rare. You know, it's not something that we deal with all the time, but it is something that you get pretty good at recognizing. 

Tyson: Mhm. You can see you start to see it coming. They think they're clever…

Grant: …but they're actually not that clever.

Barb: The kids you mean? The estranged kids?

Tyson: Yeah. Yeah. 

Grant: How they go about it whether it's legal representation or they're just getting stuff for their account or sometimes they are a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing, shall we say? 

Barb: And and do you ever come across issues around step-children?

Grant: Yeah. There's always you're always going to have that with blended families. But typically fortunately for us, I guess experience those ones have actually all gotten along reasonably well. 

Tyson: Yeah. But these again these are all the, the details that do have the potential to, well it makes you have to think more about it. Now again this all comes down to the things you have to think about as the gifter, as the person managing their estate. You have to think about these things. And you know, again, do you want it to be fair? You want do you want to ensure that there's fairness between, you know, the stepchildren and, you know, the biological children? Um, and what does that look like? You know, it might not look like giving each one of them an exact equal dollar figure. It might look like, you know, your biological child has a very close, uh, you know, uh, familiarity with the family cabin, and you want to make sure that stays, you know, to the person who's going to get the most appreciation out of it. And then how do you find an equivalent value of other things to that for the rest of the children? And how do you make sure that, again, back to communication. Everybody understands the rationale for why you're doing the things you're doing, why who's getting what? I think that really is one of the key elements here is that, you know, just having that level of communication around things

Barb: Mhmm.

Grant:  And I think you can make those decisions while you're still mentally sound. 

Barb: Right.

Grant: You know that as you get older, sometimes things get a bit more confusing, a bit cloudier. We've had people that have adjusted their wills ten times in ten years. You know, because of the family dynamic with their children. And then they would take out an insurance policy because if they're giving their principal residents to one daughter a place in Whistler, to the other daughter, and then the third daughter is getting a residual sum of money, but it's done as much as, you know the houses are worth, for example, then they take a life insurance policy and make them the beneficiaries. So they try and make it all equal. But it's difficult to do. And, and um, sometimes people outthink themselves and sometimes a lot of emotions are involved. You know, you'll have three children and one will be the favorite, and then the next will be the favorite, and the third one will be the favorite. And almost depends on who's coming back into into the fold and spending more time with their parents. So, you do see some odd things and sometimes you just have to provide that advice like, hey, look, you know, enough's enough. You don't need to adjust your will every six months because somebody else has come into favour. So we've we've had to have those discussions too.

Barb: Oh gosh…

Tyson: It’s rare that anything will be perfect. But as long as it can be good, it's better than nothing. 

Barb: Right. Right. Oh, there’s a big argument in the family. Okay, I’m gonna adjust my will right now. Oh! We’ve reconciled. Okay, we’ll go back.

Grant: We’ve seen that. It's surprising. Yeah. Really surprising. 

Barb: I believe it.

Grant: And the biggest thing with us is just making sure we never reveal any confidential information, because that's a good way for us to get sued. 

Tyson: [laugh]

Barb: Oh, I’m sure. Yeah, yeah. It’s important to keep things confidential.

Okay, this has been great. Is there anything else you think would be wise for us to know around this topic of inheritance? Early inheritance or not? Gifting or not?

Grant: In my experience, the biggest thing is, is your child progressing through life? Are they progressing and you're providing that lift for them? And that's not going to deter them, and it's going to allow them to live a fuller life. And I think each individual has to make that decision for themselves. Fortunately, in Canada there's no tax implications. And realistically, if you're as the gifter in a higher tax bracket and you're gifting to your children, they are likely in the lower tax bracket. And so you may be able to take money from an investment that's being taxed and put it into a principal residence for your children that is not taxed. And so there are ways that this could work out, you know, quite beneficially. And to be able to see your children benefit from your gift, you don't get to do that if it's left in your will. So I'm of myself personally, I’d do it now. If there's a way that I can potentially lighten their load a bit, for sure I’ll help them. 

Barb: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if we have the ability to help them… and as you say, I think that’s a really good point, to see them benefit and enjoy that money while we’re alive.

Okay, Tyson and Grant, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Can you each give your contact information if anybody that’s listening to this wants to connect with you?

Tyson: So for me it’s tyson[dot]macmillan@td.com, and then grant[dot]bell@td.com.

Barb: Thank you very much!

Tyson: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us on!

Outro:

Barb: We’re excited to now be part of The Super Aging News Network, the most authoritative online source of news, trends and ideas on longevity and the Super Aging Revolution—getting older without getting old. Find the link in our show notes and be sure to sign up for their newsletter.

Credits: 

‘What’s Next?’ Is written and created by Barb Desmarais. It is produced, edited, and engineered by MELA. If you like this show, follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you stream your podcasts. Thank you for listening.